First responders deal with trauma every single day. Yet, they are often not trained in how to maintain their own mental wellness. Dr. Heather Williams, who specializes in helping first responders with their mental health, discusses the gaps that exist and the barriers – both internal and external – that first responders often face in regards to mental health and wellness.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Hello, welcome to the Hope Happens Here Podcast. This is Kate Gosney Hoffman. So glad to have you with us today. Today, we are joined by Dr. Heather Williams. Heather is a licensed psychologist who specializes in the treatment and support for mental health of first responders and has had a long career in doing just that. Heather and I had a really fascinating conversation about just what it's like to support first responders and their mental health and dealing with the stigma that goes along with that, that they struggle with and what this past year has presented for them and what it's been like for them since COVID and being a first responder in the climate of what's going on in the world today.
She talks about from the very beginning of her career, she had an aha moment after talking with a senior deputy sheriff who admitted to her that they're trained in everything, but their own mental health. And she realized that there is a gap there, and that there needs to be more support for first responders who are dealing with trauma every single day. And we talked about what it's like for them and having to hold all this trauma and the barriers within them that prevent them from asking for help or reaching for help and their own stigma that they carry around, mental illness, or just in general needing extra support. And we talked about what it's looked like in the year 2020, and what she kind of deemed the invisible monster of the pandemic of this virus that has affected anybody and everybody and the work that they do and how they do their work, but nobody can see it, but it's there and what that has looked like for them and how it's changed them and their relation to the work that they do as well.
We talked about the importance of helping people in that who work in these careers and in these roles to admit and learn to be okay with not being okay, and that it's the brave thing and the courageous thing to ask for help. And she offered some wonderful resources and we had a really good conversation about how to support anybody you might know who is a first responder, and if you are a first responder yourself. Anyway, so grateful to have Heather here, and she has so much knowledge and an obvious compassion in heart for the work that he does. Well, I want to officially welcome you to the Hope Happens Here Podcast. Dr. Heather Williams, we're so glad to have you here. We've been chatting about ... We've actually met before and it's really neat to kind of come together in this capacity. And you've done a lot of things since we have actually met a few years ago. And so why don't you tell us a little bit about what you do and just about who you are and your presence in the field?
Dr. Heather Wil...: Well, thank you so much, Kate, for having me. It's always an honor to be able to help and talk and maybe make a difference in whoever's listening.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Absolutely.
Dr. Heather Wil...: I actually started my career over 20 years ago, working for Orange County Probation as a deputy probation counselor. And got a bachelor's in psych and a master's in criminal justice and really thought I was going to end up being a probation officer. Life's journeys and challenges present themselves and I found myself actually having an infant child and going through a divorce and thinking, what am I going to do? I've got to find a job, working business hours so that I can take care of my child. And I don't believe that the things happen just by chance. I think that it's kind of happened by design and that we all have our own personal journeys that we get put on.
And so I ended up finding a job working as a program director with CSP, Victim Assistance Programs here in Orange County for 14 years or so. And I oversaw all the special victim programs that included homicide and sexual assault, getting domestic violence. And then in 2003, after responding to an active shooter event, Irvine, where a schizophrenia man walked into an Albertson's with a samurai sword,
Kate Gosney Hof...: I remember that.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Yeah, he killed two and injured three. And that was just an enormous type of event to happen in such a safe city in Orange County as it is.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Totally.
Dr. Heather Wil...: So in recognizing the ripple effect of crisis and trauma, I created the CSP crisis response team. And as the coordinator of that team, I've spent years coordinating and developing a program, but also responding to critical incidents 24/7 at the request of law enforcement. So that included everything from, usually death-related issues like homicides and murder suicides and drownings and fatal car crashes and workplace violence things. And then in 2011, responded to the Salon Meritage shooting in Seal Beach. And so just in navigating those incidents and being on scene at someone's worst day, I started to develop rapport with law enforcement and I would be on scene on an incident and I'd get the tap on the shoulder saying, "Heather, I know you're here for the victims, but would you mind talking to the officer? He just did CPR on the baby for the dispatcher who just took this horrific suicide call."
And so that just kept growing. And the journeys of victim services then started turning towards doing more of a pure support function with law enforcement. And so during that time while debriefing first responders I had a huge aha moment and that aha moment came after debriefing a deputy sheriff. And this deputy said to me, "Heather, I know we get training and everything, but no one has ever trained us how to deal with the stressors and traumas of this job."
Kate Gosney Hof...: Wow.
Dr. Heather Wil...: And that was, it's just a very big moment where I realized it wasn't just for, how true was not only for law enforcement, but how true it was for anyone who works in the helping field. We were getting all this training on psychological backgrounds or crisis response or how to help others, but we weren't getting any training on self care and the stress and compassion fatigue and burnout and secondary revictimization and trauma. I mean, that kind of stuff wasn't being discussed at any level, even in the helping field in victim advocacy or in law enforcement, or now I know anywhere from the fire department to hospitals, nobody was talking about the human element in this job. And so-
Kate Gosney Hof...: It's kind of shocking to realize that, right?
Dr. Heather Wil...: Yes.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Just this assumption that the people responding to such tragedies and traumas are just superhuman in a way, and then it didn't occur to anybody that they need to have to be prepared for this and how to process and recover.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Right. And that's ironic. This was back in 2003 to then all the way to 2012 after creating a four-hour class called the impact of trauma. Anaheim PD had approached me and said, "Will you help us start a peer support program?" I really didn't understand what that was at the time, but after a two year journey with them and helping them start a program, then other departments in the county started to also request assistance in starting programs because the culture was starting to shift. And it was surprising to me that police departments and fire departments in my opinion were not far behind, but it seemed that California might be a little bit far behind in regards to these types of programs. I realized very quickly over the course of helping these departments that departmenting all over the nation were struggling and that the culture and the belief system behind allowing for the humanization of public safety wasn't really something people were talking about.
And so starting peer support programs was something I was doing. And then after helping the sheriff's department start their peer support program, I think it was 2013. Then in 2014, I was hired full-time by the Orange County Sheriff's Department as the regional peer support coordinator. And to watch the cultural shift in the five years that I was there is, it's truly remarkable to walk in the first day and have people look at me sideways and say, "Who are you?" They literally said, "Did they hire you to give us hugs?" And I thought, oh, this is going to be fun.
And then over the course of time and relationships and building rapport and teaching my four-hour class, more and more people started to come forward and say, "Hey, can I talk to you?" Or on breaks during class they'd say, "I remember when." And it's always the child death or the horrific shooting or whatever this person happened to be involved in at the time. And so it was almost like they needed an opportunity for someone to tell them, "Hey, you're normal. Everything that you're going through is completely normal." And we feel validated that they weren't going crazy.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Right. And like you said earlier, the human experience for somebody to just tap into that for a minute and validate their experience and that they're not crazy, and that it's okay to be feeling all those things.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Absolutely. I have a rule that feelings is the effort of law enforcement, so I don't use it even in my current life as a licensed psychologist, we talk about reactions, we talk about processing and debriefing. We do not talk about feelings unless the feelings would come up with the client.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Isn't that so interesting? Just that word, why do you think that that is so taboo?
Dr. Heather Wil...: So what it comes down to in my opinion is stigma. It's the stigma of if I have feelings and I talk about them, that somehow bring shame or provokes a feeling of weakness in public safety professionals.
Kate Gosney Hof...: All right. So it's that cascade of stigma, shame, weakness, and then I'm unfit to do my job?
Dr. Heather Wil...: Yep. You are spot on.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Yeah. Because so much of, I mean, I know from my work with first responders, just the therapeutic level just the work, no matter what branch of service, it's different in a way than other careers, because I mean, it's arguable because it's based, I'm talking about everybody's personal experience, but there's about law enforcement or just first responders in whatever capacity that it is so wrapped up with the identity of the person, right?
Dr. Heather Wil...: Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hof...: It's who they are.
Dr. Heather Wil...: It's who they are. It's what they know. Working in the field of public safety changes their lens for how they see life. And to have someone who understands that and be able to validate and help them see life through their own lens while also validating and normalizing, but also challenging some of the thoughts that come with that so that they can live a healthier, happier life too.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Right. Finding that balance.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Right. Absolutely.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Well, it sounds to me over your journey in this field that you have had a gift of recognizing, you've been a witness to the victims first, and then in doing that, you were witnessing what the first responders were going through. And you've had a gift of being able to see what is missing. Just kind of noticing what's needed, whether it's these, excuse me, different organizations you've put together or just different services or groups that you've provided and you've been an advocate for ... It sounds like it's taken you in an unexpected direction, but it was so needed.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Well, thank you. Absolutely. Appreciate that. I kind of joked around throughout my career saying I was a gap filler. And what I mean by that is noticing those gaps; where are the gaps in services? What's missing? What do we need and how do we fill them? And then developing programs, and then even going back to school to get my doctorate, to be able to take my services to that next level. And then as a result of all that last year, got licensed as a psychologist and decided, and I was going to take my services to that next level. And so I left the sheriff's department and I started Premier First Responder Psychological Services.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Wow. And so what's that exactly?
Dr. Heather Wil...: That is a private practice in business. And basically I've wrapped up all 20 years of experience into one business which is therapy, individual couples and EMDR therapy, in addition to training peer support, development and training, critical incident response, 24/7 response to critical incidents, doing critical incident debriefing and being that person who a department can rely on and trust and be part of the village, because I truly do believe that working in this field of public safety and frontline medical personnel, that it takes a village to do this work and they're out there serving and protecting their communities and responding to the worst of the worst. I see it as an honor to be able to serve and protect them from the standpoint of giving them the tools psychologically so that they can go through their career happy and healthy and get to retirement and be able to live their life being happy and healthy physically and mentally after they give 30 plus years of their livelihood to serving and protecting their community.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Wow. What an amazing gift you are giving these people. And it sounds like this is also just sort of your baby that you've birthed after all these years. This whole practice that you've built is made up of just years and years of gap filling like you said.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Yeah. Absolutely.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Yeah. Surprised that we're all on our own journey and mine is continuing to move forward just like everybody else's. And so I'm very honored to be here and to help bring hopefully some hope and some education to everything that's been going on.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Yeah, thank you. And that kind of brings me to my next sort of questions about, you've built all of this and you've seen, I mean, you've had such a journey and the things that you've witnessed and been a part of and helped people through and held space for other people's traumas and then 2020 happened.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Oh my God.
Kate Gosney Hof...: I'm just so curious from your perspective what this has been like, working with the first responders and everything? I mean, that's a very broad question, but I'm just, anything and everything is relevant here.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Well, what's so ironic is as you asked that question there's a siren going on behind me.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Of course, there are no coincidence.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Right. I have a firehouse not too far from here.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Wow. Cyclicity.
Dr. Heather Wil...: So to answer that question, I'm trying to figure out where to even start with that because COVID, it has become the invisible monster. That's how it started, is nobody's lived through a pandemic before. So from the top down in police and fire departments and hospitals, nobody's lived through a pandemic to know exactly what to do. And so everybody's learning to navigate this huge transition. And there are different schedules being done and briefings are being held outside.
And what starts to come into my office is an anxiety. And the constant anxiety comes from not seeing the monster that they're fighting and not wanting, the fear of am I going to bring this home to my family? Because on the front end of this, nobody really understood the science behind it, the medical aspect of it. They just knew that you all of a sudden you had to wear a mask and stay six feet apart. Nobody really understood why and what are we doing? And then their schedules were changed. In addition to that, the way that police officers were trained to be proactive was now turning into, you can't be proactive. You need to be reactive.
Kate Gosney Hof...: And what does that mean? What does that look like?
Dr. Heather Wil...: Being proactive is being out in patrol and noticing things that need to be addressed or a conversation that needed to be had with certain people out in the community, noticing that there's some suspicious behavior and proactively approaching rather than waiting for a crime to occur kind of thing.
Kate Gosney Hof...: I see. Okay.
Dr. Heather Wil...: And then reactive is okay, 911, we just had a bank robbery, we just had a robbery at a grocery store. It's completely different. It's just reacting to whatever the call is rather than being out there, trying to prevent it or find it first.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Right. Okay.
Dr. Heather Wil...: So just the way police officers were allowed to do their job changed, and then their schedules changed. And so every day seems like a brand new day on the job for so many people. I'm sure in the hospitals the fire departments says, "Today, you don't have to do this, but tomorrow you do have to do this." And so just constant adapting the transition. And what that came with was this ongoing anxiety and then the anxiety of then, okay, now I'm at home trying to work, being sent home and we're going to have you work from home in certain positions, but at home I'm taking care of kids and they're distance learning while I'm also trying to work. And how do you watch a two or three-year-old while you're supposed to be on the job?
Kate Gosney Hof...: Exactly. Wow.
Dr. Heather Wil...: So the same challenges that the majority of people out there are having is navigating the balance between work and home and finding daycare and the distance learning for their kids and all the things that come with that. But then on the other hand, if you have a detective working at home and they're responsible for their child because there's nobody else, and now they're getting called out because there's been a homicide, how do you find someone without potentially contaminating them? It's just been very overwhelming on the front end with all of the transitional aspects of it.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Just hearing about it makes my anxiety go up. Just the managing of all of that, because the nature of the work is already heavy.
Dr. Heather Wil...: It's already stressful.
Kate Gosney Hof...: So stressful. And then adding these extra layers to it and having it all changed, be flipped on its head. And then now also have your child right there, it's more than one is meant to handle, I think. It's a lot.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Yes. And then on top of that the constant changes, the constant transitions and adapting to their world, they're doing a really good job, but then things are changing at home because there's this ongoing anxiety that then turns into this depression or this isolation that turns into depression. And now it's an irritability that's showing up at home, and so now it's impacting relationships. And the irony in COVID is when you say COVID the first thing that comes out of my clients, even now, today, I've had clients who have been talking about the minute you talk about COVID and the vaccine, then it turns into a conversation about politics.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Yep.
Dr. Heather Wil...: So there's a direct connection to that dialogue and to that narrative that they're having to work through, that's causing them increased anxiety, but also a powerlessness in having control over their environment.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Right. And it's claustrophobic in a way, that word just popped in my head where it's just kind of closing in on them and they don't have, I can imagine just feeling like they, like you said, don't have control. Everything is different. And then they might not even have choices about things in the future. Everybody has an opinion about everything, and it's just so much on top of already such hard work.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Absolutely.
Kate Gosney Hof...: They're carrying a lot of stress that was not there before.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Absolutely true. And then I know for everybody nationwide, probably internationally, just the politics of the state that we're in and things that have happened over 2020 is just the next layer of stress and anxiety on top of the COVID situation.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Yes. There's just so much out there right now. I think what's really hard, and I'm curious about your thoughts on this is there's just also this sort of state of unknowingness, is that a word?
Dr. Heather Wil...: Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Unknowingness. I mean, we never know what the future's going to hold, obviously.
Dr. Heather Wil...: But it is the uncertainty on a certain level.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Yeah. Just, is this going to be required of me? Is this not going to be required of me? Do I fit in with my peers anymore? Or am I able to do this work? Is this the job that I'm even fit to do anymore? I can imagine the snowball effects that's going through their minds.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Yeah. When you said that I had someone pop into my mind, when I signed up to do police work or I signed up to be a firefighter, this wasn't what I signed up to do. And now it's changing. And what does that mean for my identity, my ability to do my job? What's this going to look like in the state of California? Then every everybody's moving out of the state of California.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Right. Exactly.
Dr. Heather Wil...: I'm pretty much going to be licensed at some point in Idaho, Montana, Arizona, Texas. Yes.
Kate Gosney Hof...: I know. It's just such a strange time. Everybody is just kind of figuring out, well, how do I want my future to look? And what is this? I mean, how much control do I have over everything anymore? I'm not sure we've ever had to question that so much before. I mean, we've been so lucky that we haven't had to worry about that. But I think everybody's sort of in their own versions of the same kind of panic and maybe not, but I think the mental health of people who are first responders to this situation that we're all in right now, I'm just going to go out and say that it's easy to kind of take for granted that they're always there and not really think about, I know myself, I haven't really paused to think about, well, how is this really affecting them, the people that are responding to the people in fear?
If that makes sense of getting this invisible monster that everything that, because I know domestic violence has gone up, child abuse has gone up, drug addiction has gone up, suicides have gone up. There's got to be somebody there to respond to all those calls and the people who are sick and worried that they're short of breath and that they have COVID and all of this stuff. I know I have a friend who's a first responder and he said he's never seen so much fear in his life, people just scared all the time and they're holding that. They're responding to that. Anyway, go ahead.
Dr. Heather Wil...: No, you're absolutely right. They're responding to other people's fears and anxieties and panics, while they're suppressing their own. And that comes out in different behaviors based on where they stand on the issue.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Exactly. Go ahead.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Yeah. I'm sure you understand what I mean by that.
Kate Gosney Hof...: I do. Yeah. I'm concerned too about the resources available for them. I mean, so glad you're doing what you're doing for them, and obviously you're providing as much of a support to them as you can, because we're talking about the mental health of these folks, right?
Dr. Heather Wil...: Absolutely.
Kate Gosney Hof...: And so what I'm hearing from you is that there's been this sort of this chain reaction of just this constant anxiety of the invisible monster. And then also, like you said, holding space for other people's fears because that's their work. You're responding to that. And then also having to do it in somewhat of an isolation and then that causes the depression and the impacts on the relationships and then questioning everything about their world. I think in some sense, our whole society is doing a version of that. That sounds like what so many people have gone through as well. How do you think it might be different for the first responders? What sets them apart you think from everybody's sort of collective trauma if that makes sense?
Dr. Heather Wil...: I think that for first responders that because of their positions and this almost like, they wear the cap so to speak. Although first responders do not like being called heroes, by definition they are. And a hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endurance by the overwhelming obstacles. And that's a quote by Christopher Reeve. And our first responders are heroes, but then they will say, "I signed up to do this job. I'm not a hero." And what I tell them is that sometimes you need to be somebody else's hero for them. They need to see you as a hero. And so when they're called to help in whatever capacity they are being looked at as, you save lives, you're supposed to save this life. And that puts an enormous amount of pressure and stress on the first responders.
And I don't think that because the culture hasn't completely shifted is that they will think, well, I'm not supposed to cry, I'm not supposed to feel sad, I'm not supposed to be anything other than angry so this is how I'm going to show up. And they're not taking the time to say, "Okay, yeah, that rocked me. I did not enjoy that. I know I signed up to do this job, but it doesn't take away the human element." And that they do have a heart and they do have a brain and they're impacted by what they deal with. And so that's kind of the other layer is the average person out there is dealing with stress and anxiety and fear, but then a first responder has to literally suck it up for the other person's moment, and then hope they get a chance to deal with their own.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Right. Hope-
Dr. Heather Wil...: And so I'm ... I'm sorry, go ahead.
Kate Gosney Hof...: No, no, go ahead. Finish.
Dr. Heather Wil...: No, that's a big goal of mine over the last 10, 15 years. It's okay to not be okay. Maybe you have to suck it up and be okay while you're on scene and doing whatever you're doing, whether police fire or medical, but when you're done doing whatever that thing is, that's when you give yourself permission to take five minutes and go release some of the tears, or to talk to it, a coworker, or go grab a cup of coffee and take a breath inside your patrol car or whatever you need to do in your job to be able to admit and sit through the difficult moment. A lot of the guys and gals or uniforms need to be off. They need to be at home in a safe space to be able to actually be human. And that's okay, too. But it's just acknowledging and creating an awareness that, yeah, that rocked me. That sucked. I hope I never have to do that again, even though they're likely to have to do it again, they still can give themselves permission to feel right.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Right. Exactly. That they can admit the truth to themselves about how they really feel and that's okay.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Right. Or how they're reacting.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Right. I need to get in with his lingo, how they're reacting. Exactly.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Yeah. What? Tell me about your reactions. Tell me about your thoughts.
Kate Gosney Hof...: It is interesting that we had a guest on a couple of episodes ago talking about the power of language and mental health. I hadn't ever really thought about it like that before, just the words that we use and how impactful they all are on how we relate to our mental health and the impact it has on stigma; whether its social stigma or personal stigma the words that we use, it's really interesting and so important to be aware of. So I appreciate that.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Yeah, absolutely. Now that's just something that I've learned over the course of working with first responders, is how they respond to the language.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Yeah. Because like you said, they are set apart in a way that there is the social expectation of them in society that they have these kind of hero, they're looked as heroes, they save the day and they can't feel like they're weak. They don't want to feel like they're seen as that way. And so in changing just that small shift, you have found a way to still come to the same space with them, but just go just a slightly different path. I commend you all for that. It's really, I don't know why. It seems like a very meaningful thing, just you made it work for them and it's so necessary and I appreciate it.
Dr. Heather Wil...: No, thank you, Kate. I appreciate that.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Yeah. It also kind of comes to mind too, that it must be so hard when you're saying just to take a minute in your patrol car or take a minute, I mean whatever, your lunch break or go home and breathe, whatever it may be. I'm not sure how to even articulate this other than when we're in a state of trauma, our nervous system is aroused. We're in hyper arousal and it's that fight or flight reaction that we automatically go in and it's unconscious. We don't really even usually know that we're in it. It's a totally unconscious thing our body does or nervous system does.
And in order for us to actually recalibrate, sit and breathe, it has to take a certain level of mindfulness that we need it and awareness that we actually are in fight or flight, and we need to calm come down and we need to center ourselves and get grounded. And that takes practice. That isn't really something. If somebody has been practicing, let's say, as a firefighter, they been a firefighter for 25 years and they've been on all the time and they've never had the training and the coaching and the support to deal with their reactions, to develop that kind of self-awareness, I can imagine is really hard. And so starting small I'm sure is necessary.
Dr. Heather Wil...: It definitely takes time and it takes kind of a paradigm shift in the way that they're thinking about really the way they've been trained and their experiences on the job. And so when I have people come to me with symptoms of anxiety, I have handouts and different things that I use that's tangible for them to be able to start noticing, okay, what was the thought I just had that just gave my heart a jump-start? I felt the palpitation. Or what was the thought I just had or the experience I just have that triggered my anger?
And so by creating that opportunity for them to start taking control of understanding of creating awareness, my whole thing is knowledge is power, and the knowledge that we have in the awareness that we have then gives us the power to start taking control back by the behaviors that we engage in. And so when I have someone come to me and say, I just get angry and I have a rage issue or I have, they don't even want to use the word anxiety saying I'm worried or I'm not ... They're giving me all the clues. They have anxiety or they don't want to use the word. It's being able-
Kate Gosney Hof...: Sorry to interrupt you there. Why do you think they don't want to use the word? Does it back to that feelings versus reactions thing or what do you think it is?
Dr. Heather Wil...: It's stigma. It's if I admit I have a mental health issue or a concern right now, there's stigma attached to that, which means shame, embarrassment, vulnerability. I actually looked up the word stigma and it came up as a mark of disgrace associated with a particular circumstance, quality, or person.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Wow.
Dr. Heather Wil...: And then disgrace mean and shame, another word for shame. So if you think about just that definition and then you throw mental health, the words, mental health creates stigma.
Kate Gosney Hof...: And on top of somebody who's a hero.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Someone who has signed up to help others who are going through their own trauma or tragedy. Well, I have to rise above it. I can't be vulnerable to your trauma and still maintain my composure.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Right, without being a disgrace. So hard.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Right. So there's a lot of cultural shifts and language differences and important things that we're working on, I think, as a culture to change this.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Right. I mean, you're doing a lot of work around this, and this is a theme, obviously with this podcast just working around de-stigmatizing meant mental illness and empowering people with their own mental health and being able to talk about it and bringing it above board. Is there anything that you believe and your colleagues have seen that we should be doing for our first responders, just help with that or what's needed right now? I know I'm putting you on the spot, but to help de-stigmatize this for them or for us too?
Dr. Heather Wil...: I'm trying to think that, I've always felt that it comes down to validating and normalizing and not being offended as well by the comments and statements and humor that are used by first responders. I think that's really important because humor is coping, humor is making sense of, humor is sometimes used instead of tears.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Totally.
Dr. Heather Wil...: And so not being offended by those things while also not being shocked, that's something that I will hear first responders tell me is that they've been to a therapist in the past, or they were sent because of whatever and the therapist seemed more shocked or upset by the traumatic information coming at them. They weren't prepared to hear what the first responder was going through and so-
Kate Gosney Hof...: It makes them feel more shame probably.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Yes. It's like, well, God, if I can't talk to you in you're a professional, then I guess I should just suck it up and keep it to myself. Because they will try to protect mental health professionals as well.
Kate Gosney Hof...: It's just automatic.
Dr. Heather Wil...: It is. I don't want you to have to hear what I've been through, so I'm not going to tell you.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Right. Wow. What a thick wall just brick by brick have to take down because it's so confusing because it is what allows them to survive in the work that they do and be good at it. But it also, that wall, it prevents them from thriving personally if they don't take down those bricks, it's just really, it's tough. I can see why you have been so passionate about wanting to provide the right type of support for people in these positions.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Thank you. I appreciate that.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Absolutely. Because it's a little bit niche-y, if that makes sense.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Say that again.
Kate Gosney Hof...: It's a little bit niche-y. There's a niche to it. It's something that's, it's a specialized population that needs a specialized type of approach in care and a special kind of compassion for what they go through and to see them for who they really are versus what they do. I remember-
Dr. Heather Wil...: That's so amazingly stated.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Thank you. I mean, that's just what I'm hearing that you do and what everybody who works with these folks does. I just remember talking to my own clients about, "Hey, you are not what you do, you are you, who you are." But when you put on that uniform, it's really hard to remember that and differentiate those two things. I can't blame them, I really can't.
Dr. Heather Wil...: No. And that's also protective. The uniform is protective mentally and physically. And that identity is important in that moment to keep them safe.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Yeah. Right. So we can't dishonor that, right?
Dr. Heather Wil...: Right.
Kate Gosney Hof...: We can't say, "Hey, that doesn't matter." Because it does.
Dr. Heather Wil...: It absolutely does matter. And to be able to respect that and honor that while also giving them permission to take the uniform off and see who they are.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Yeah. Allowing both to be okay.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Yep.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Boy, I just so appreciate your perspective on all this. I think it's just so necessary and having a conversation about this topic is really powerful. I wish we had more time, but we've got to start wrapping up and kind of what I wanted to close with is other than any other thoughts that you might have or things that you might have not gotten a chance to bring up, please feel free. But if there's also anything, if there's any first responders listening to this, what would you like them to know? And what resources would you like them to have?
Dr. Heather Wil...: Well, one of the major takeaways I always ask first responders who are taking my training to consider is that it's okay to not be okay. And honestly, if that's the only thing they ever take away from my trainings, I'm okay with that because that's the cultural shift I'm trying to push forward. And that's the human side of this. And to not forget your human side, and that as a first responder, please let others help you the way that you help others in your community that it takes enormous strength to ask for help. Although mental health or mental illnesses is a perceived weakness and we're still working on that stigma, asking for help takes enormous strength. That is one of the first things I tell anyone who calls me, texts me, emails me, or walks into my office. And so to not forget that.
And then in regards to resources, I'd be happy to share my email. And also through my website, there are different resources. If there's something they're looking for specifically, I might be able to help direct them. I would have to try to figure out what is it that they're looking for to help get them there, but there are a number of resources from the Law Enforcement Cancer Support Foundation in national fire support or Cancer Support Foundation. There are specialized addiction programs for public safety that I could direct them to. If that's what they're looking for. It just depends on what it is that they're looking for, but I'd be happy to be a resource to them.
Kate Gosney Hof...: That's awesome. And I'll make sure and have your information available as well at this episode.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Okay.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Are you comfortable saying your email now or would you like me to just kind of list it? We can do both.
Dr. Heather Wil...: No, that's fine. Absolutely. My email is heather@premier, P-R-E-M-I-E-R, the number one ST responder. So it's heather@premierfirstresponder.com.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Awesome. Thank you so much.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Thank you, Kate so much for having me. I'm very honored to be able to help in any way that I can.
Kate Gosney Hof...: No. We're so grateful to you, and I love your message that admitting you're not okay is actually the stronger thing to do. It's brave and courageous and we honor that.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Absolutely.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Thank you for the reminder and for all that you do. I'm so grateful to connect with you again.
Dr. Heather Wil...: You too. I look forward to continuing our conversation offline, and you have a wonderful weekend.
Kate Gosney Hof...: You as well, Heather. Thank you so much.
Dr. Heather Wil...: Thank you. Bye-Bye.
Kate Gosney Hof...: Bye.