Daniel Patterson is a strong advocate for adolescent mental health and wellness. Drawing on his experience as a former educator, as well as someone in recovery, he discusses the importance of prioritizing teens' well-being.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Hello, I'm Kate Gosney Hoffman and this is the Hope Happens Here podcast. Today we are joined by Daniel Patterson. Daniel is a former high school, school assistant principal, he is also now the author of two best selling books, he's a speaker on mental health for adolescents and supports families and adolescents through his organization that he started called The Patterson Perspective.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
He provides lots of different resources for these folks through consulting, motivational speaking, and connection to resources for mental health concerns and substance abuse.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
He's written two best selling books. His recent book is RECOVER[edu]. We're so happy to have Daniel here with us today. He is just a raw and authentic voice for mental health and advocate for adolescents. He speaks about his own experience as an adolescent and his journey through adulthood and what he goes through presently with his own struggles with mental health, anxiety.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
He's very open about his own personal recovery. He's been sober for six years and uses these life experiences as a tool for the work that he does. And he's just willing to roll up his sleeves and just get in the mix and do the work and help those who are in need and it is just wonderful to talk to him.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Well I guess I should probably formally start the conversation, the interview. But I am here with Daniel Patterson. Daniel you are a speaker, a former teacher, right?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
High school.
Daniel Patterson:
High school teacher and assistant principal.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And assistant principal.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And you have done and are doing a lot of work in helping support parents and adolescents in recognizing the signs of depression, anxiety, substance abuse, mental health issues in general.
Daniel Patterson:
Correct, yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And I'm so happy to have you here.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, thank you.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
I know you have a lot to share both personally and professionally, and so if you won't mind maybe introduce yourself. I just introduced you.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Introduce your background.
Daniel Patterson:
A little bit about me.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah, tell us about you.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, I taught high school and was an assistant principal for 14 years.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Wow.
Daniel Patterson:
And I took a mental health leave from my job in 2016 after my best friend died by suicide and I decided that I needed a break and that break turned into sort of the realization that I wanted to change my footprint in education and change my footprint in the world and turn pain into purpose. So I quit.
Daniel Patterson:
And everyone was like, "What are you going to do?" We had two kids, just bought a house, my wife was freaking out but supportive and I was newly sober about a year and a half.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Okay.
Daniel Patterson:
So I launched Patterson Perspective, which is my private practice.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Okay.
Daniel Patterson:
And I work with families all over the country helping connect them to resources.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Okay.
Daniel Patterson:
And then since then I've become the Director of the Therapeutic High School in West LA where students live with us and they get full spectrum of education and clinical care.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Wow.
Daniel Patterson:
And then I run the education for a college recovery program for men here in Newport Beach.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Wow. You're not busy at all.
Daniel Patterson:
So, I do a few things.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
That is incredible. And so the Therapeutic High School in LA, is it 9-12th grade or what is it?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, 9-12. It's actually 7-12.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Wow.
Daniel Patterson:
But our typical client is a high school student.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Okay.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, who's come through some sort of higher level of care, meaning residential treatment or wilderness but not always. We actually attract clients who just don't fit into that mold of a comprehensive school setting, high anxiety or trauma or addictive tendencies, et cetera.
Daniel Patterson:
So, it's a small, contained nurturing environment where we can do school differently.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
It's wonderful.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
I love that it's outside the box.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's creating a space for somebody that doesn't feel like they fit within the parameters of how formal education has been designed.
Daniel Patterson:
Right, absolutely and that's mental health disorders and addiction do.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
Is that they make you feel isolated. That's part of the disease is that it wants to isolate.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
And by understanding you're not alone and fostering a sense of community of wellness and growth and perseverance, then you can turn big ships.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
I love that, turn big ships, absolutely.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And by giving them, here is a side door, there's another way, right?
Daniel Patterson:
Right, there's so many ways to do education.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's not black and white even though it can feel that way. And like you said, addiction isolates you and that voice tells you that you don't fit, square peg round hole syndrome, right?
Daniel Patterson:
Right, right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And then it's like, no, no, wait, there's this way. I can fit here and what a beautiful thing to offer.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, it's been fascinating and from a personal perspective, I grew up with severe anxiety and depression as an adolescent.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Did you?
Daniel Patterson:
But I never called it by its name because I had no idea what it was.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Wow.
Daniel Patterson:
Right? Because it wasn't, even today the stigma attached to mental health disorders are still glaring.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
Although we talk about it more. But I grew up in a rural community and there wasn't really access to care. It wasn't lack of love by my parents, it was just that generation and location.
Daniel Patterson:
So, anxiety created so much havoc in my life. But now I look at it on the other side whereas all of those experiences and that anxiety is actually I've been able to kind of convert it to my super power, I like to say.
Daniel Patterson:
I still manage it every day and deal with it every day but I'm able to understand that I'm not broken, I'm just different.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right, right. What does, if you don't mind me asking, for you, because I read something that you wrote that said, "We talk a lot about mental health, we talk a lot about talking about mental health." Something like that.
Daniel Patterson:
Correct, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And yet let's, getting down and these are my words now, but getting down to kind of brass tacks it's actually name it and work with it and do something about it.
Daniel Patterson:
Right, right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And when you're talking about your anxiety, what does your anxiety look like to you or did it for you when you were an adolescent? Because I feel like people experience it in lots of different ways but it's, when we're not talking about it, it's like what does it feel like, what is it?
Daniel Patterson:
Well I think it's different now than it was then. It's evolved as I've grown.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Okay, sure.
Daniel Patterson:
But as an adolescent, pre-teen, teenager, it was hyper sensitivity, paranoia, fear of rejection. And then also on the flip side of that, trying to outrun it, being a high performer.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
Like if I get straight As, if I'm a varsity athlete, if I star in the play, if I get this college admission, if I work, if I buy my own car. I checked all the boxes trying to receive that sense of normalcy through doing what people who appeared well were doing, it never worked.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
No.
Daniel Patterson:
And now my anxiety is more rooted in future tripping, like what's next for me as an entrepreneur or an author, speaker or worrying about things I cannot control. So, I focus on keeping better worry hours and having a very kind of over the top schedule to my life and routine, which COVID has made it really challenging to maintain that.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
But I don't know, my anxiety wakes me up every morning and knocks on my door. But instead of ignoring it I let it in and I name it to tame it.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
And then let it move through me and keep going.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Which is such a good way to say that because when you ignore it, right, or you pretend it's not there, it's just really giving it power.
Daniel Patterson:
Totally. It's like my kids when they ask for something and they call my name 19 times and I ignore them, they just say it louder.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
They just get louder and more obnoxious.
Daniel Patterson:
They just get louder. That's the same thing with anxiety.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
That's my kids. Sorry I'm not telling you your kids are obnoxious.
Daniel Patterson:
No, I think that might be all kids.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Absolutely. So, you have had your own wellness journey, obviously.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And what gave you the passion to work with adolescents and you were obviously a teacher.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And an administration at a high school, assistant principal. And so there is a love for kids that already existed within you, I can imagine.
Daniel Patterson:
Right, yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
But what got you here?
Daniel Patterson:
What got me here was at a baseline survival really. It was either me or the job, or the job or my sobriety, or the job or my life, really. And also understanding, back to your point, about we talk a lot about talking about mental health.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
Understanding that as an organizational structure in schools, we're still operating on an extremely punitive, policy driven, lock step giddy up pipeline.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
And not recognizing that behaviors are just manifestation of pain and fear and trauma and loneliness and all of these things. So, when I was an assistant principal I loved it but a high school assistant principal is not a sexy job. You are the bad news bear. Like if they're in your office it's usually because things have gone sideways and I'm here to issue a consequence.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
And that didn't feel healthy, it didn't feel rewarding. So, I wanted to get to a place where kind of like a defense attorney who used to be a prosecutor.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
Flip the script and get back to trying to be the person that I needed but didn't really have at that age and stage.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
So you saw a need.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And you saw that you ... You saw, I'm sure, kids every day that ... I can imagine sitting in that office and seeing the picture of what was going on and you in your role really not being able to fulfill that for them.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And that must have been really hard.
Daniel Patterson:
Yes, stuck in the system.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Totally.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, and I would find myself in a little bit of trouble often because I loved alternative means of correction like restorative justice.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
It's better sometimes in that role just to make a decision and then apologize later if you bosses don't agree with it.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
And getting away from that, well this is our policy and this policy is a one size fits all.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
When every kid is different and what one kid needs to get back in motion is not what another kid needs.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Exactly. They're all different and they, like you said, there's this system and everybody just kind of gets thrown in the same bucket.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's not fair.
Daniel Patterson:
And when it works it works really well.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
And when it doesn't it's a nightmare.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right, right, exactly.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
So you've paved the way for a different way of looking at things and treating adolescents and talking about mental health. And offering resources, you mentioned, and you're working with parents too.
Daniel Patterson:
Right, yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
You do speaking engagements and work to spread. What would you say your main messages are these days?
Daniel Patterson:
My main message right now is just, no offense to the pandemic, but I think the real curve that we need to flatten is mental health. I think with the PTSD and trauma and pressure and we see a lot of adolescents, at least I do, self-medicating through any vice from social media to weed and alcohol and promiscuity and all these things that are just measures to try to make them feel good enough and whole and like their peers.
Daniel Patterson:
Right now I'm really focusing on educators and parents to really validate that this is an epidemic.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Totally.
Daniel Patterson:
And we have a very reactive model and we need to get to a place where we're talking about mental health like whole health. When you break your arm, you go to school everyone signs your cast and all of these things. But when you as a parent have to take your child out of school for a therapy appointment, you make up a lie because you don't want anyone to know.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right. That shame.
Daniel Patterson:
And what message is that sending to the kid?
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right?
Daniel Patterson:
It's like this is a secret, this is not normal, don't say anything, and that is a very painful place for kids to sit when they already feel broken.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
So they don't feel safe about sharing where they're at and then they get help and then we're modeling not being honest about that, which isn't safe.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And so what are we teaching them?
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
Or we're teaching them you have to wait for things to get so bad then we'll go all in and do everything.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right, right.
Daniel Patterson:
It's like do you energetically or even through behaviors, why do we have to wait for it to reach that critical mass.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah, right. Why don't we treat it, like you said, whole health and we start seeing early signs and start treating it along the way instead of waiting for a crisis.
Daniel Patterson:
Right, right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
When you said we have a reactive response to the kids mental health, what did you mean by that?
Daniel Patterson:
Meaning we wait until their behaviors have manifested so visibly that then we go back and try to clean it up.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
Versus having screenings and regular check-ins and that's why I encourage parents, and it's a really simple, maybe cliché anecdote, but I like to say, "You should take your kids to see a clinician like you do the dentist."
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Just automatic.
Daniel Patterson:
Just twice a year.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Part of their health.
Daniel Patterson:
Get the postcard, it's part of their health.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
And that just gets them into the rhythm and comfort and get through the discomfort of going to see someone so that when and if they have an issue, they know what it feels like to go and they have that relationship and they're more likely as an adult to activate those resources because it's not foreign to them.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right, it's built in, it's integrated.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's something that they've learned along the way. Like oh I have this just like when I have a cold I go to the doctor, when I have these signs of anxiety and depression I go see my therapist, no-brainer.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, we don't wait for our kids' teach to fall out before we take them to the dentist.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
They clean them, they screen them, they take x-rays and then they tell you, "You're good. I'll see you in six months." Or they'll say, "You know what? We need to do more work."
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
And that's the same thing with mental health.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Totally. That's a great analogy and I couldn't agree more.
Daniel Patterson:
Thank you.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah. No it is because what we talk a lot about on this podcast is the stigma of mental health, right?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's so ... It's just so intense still these days.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And that's why I think when I saw the quote about talking a lot about talking about mental health, it really stuck out to me because I feel like mental health is talked about all the time.
Daniel Patterson:
For sure.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's everywhere, politically, socially.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Everybody is talking about, "Go to the doctor, you fill out forms. You go to the hospital you fill out forms about your mental health." But what are we really doing?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
What are we doing? And we've talked to a lot of people, we've talked to the on the show, the head psychologist of CHOC, right? And she was talking about how this is something that if ... This doesn't show up as an adult, there are signs all the way through, right?
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Early on most of the time.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And I couldn't agree more, there's a parallel epidemic happening with mental health.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
With our kids especially. And it's just, it could not be more critical.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, it's very critical and mental health and talking about it unfortunately what I've experienced dealing with a lot of parents, they suffer from that nimby syndrome, like not my backyard.
Daniel Patterson:
Like yeah, mental health is important so is affordable housing but not in my backyard.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
Not in my living room.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
Right?
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
So, when it comes to getting them through the door ... Or they'll say, "Oh my son or daughter would never want to see a therapist." And I'm thinking, "I think that might be because you've never wanted to see one or generationally that wasn't as common."
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
I know plenty of kids that would love to have a third party that's not their dad Steve giving him a monologue lecture about when he was a kid and go take a walk and all of these things.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right, yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
So, yeah it's weird because it's sort of put your money where your mouth is.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
And activate those systems now. If you had the same tenacity to have your child meet with the therapist like you do a chemistry tutor, then the world would be a much better place.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right. Boy, I couldn't agree more. And also, I'm curious how much you've seen of this with parents. I know in my experience and then as a parent I can also relate to this in some way when you really have to separate, you have to uncouple your stuff from your kids' stuff, right?
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And you realize their mental health does not have to be a, is not a reflection of me.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And my story does not have to be their story, my stigma, my bias about my mental health or what not, they don't deserve for me to put that on them, right?
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
So, I might be uncomfortable with therapy but let's not make that their reality too if there's something that they need.
Daniel Patterson:
Right. Well and also going back to if we can introduce it early and often, so much of the time it's introduced as a punitive response.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah, right.
Daniel Patterson:
So then the kids go in with a negative connotation like, "Oh I caught you smoking weed so I'm taking you to a therapist."
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right, yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
Versus, "Oh, I know that you're using drugs and that you must be in some sort of pain or searching for something and I would love for you to just unpack that with someone."
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Totally.
Daniel Patterson:
"And discover what within you is creating that desire to use drugs." Totally different approach and they go into it like, "Well okay."
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And this might be a controversial thing to say as a clinician myself. But maybe therapy isn't for everybody, right?
Daniel Patterson:
Correct. I'm not a therapist.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
You're not a therapist.
Daniel Patterson:
I'm not.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right, and does not mean the work you're doing isn't just as valuable. And may not be backed by specific education and letters behind your name.
Daniel Patterson:
Right, right, right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
But you have lived experience, right?
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And I know in the world of sobriety that's everything to help other people stay sober.
Daniel Patterson:
Right, service.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Being of service, right. And I know as an adolescent when you just talk to somebody who gets it, who doesn't have the sort of that white coat syndrome.
Daniel Patterson:
Right, yeah, and I think that has been both the impetus for my high success in my business but also a fair amount of shenanigans from people who think, I think I'm a therapist when I know I'm not a therapist, you know?
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
But really there was that gray area I saw between a standalone clinician and a tutor, which are basically like the two opposites.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah, yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
But I really focused on that mentorship and shared experience and letting them know that I've been through it.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
And it might not be exactly the same, but you can persevere and you can make changes.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
And I didn't make a lot of those changes till much later in my life and I'm always encouraging them, "Time is on your side. You make these changes now and you can have anything you want."
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right, gosh. And it's so hard because the adolescent brain is a whole different animal than the adult brain.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, that's its own TED Talk, yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It is its own TED Talk and we'll spare the conversation of that. But it's true. It's really hard to get those messages across with impulsivity and all the things that are just kind of naturally organically happening in the brain because that's just developmentally where it is.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And it's so hard to get these messages across and I think that's why connection is so important, right?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Because the punitive stuff, okay yeah it works for a minute, but that brain is just going to keep that impulsivity going unless there's connection and trust and somebody that they know understands and has empathy for them because I think that's what rewires us as human beings in so many ways.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, feeling understood and feeling heard and holding space for teenagers is a change agent, I believe.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
And it's funny because we talk a lot about mindfulness and mindfulness is another hot topic.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
Being present in the moment, and a lot of teenagers are so in the moment that their parents get really frustrated with them like, "You're not thinking about college, you're not this, you're not that."
Daniel Patterson:
But their focus on mindfulness or living in the moment is also like this amazing access point.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Totally yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
If you're just living in the moment and talking in the moment and not going down the road of every mistake they've ever made and not stressing them out with the next 10 years of their life, if you can just keep it in the guard rails of the here and now it really does make them, allows them to make more informed choices of the here and now tomorrow.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's true. And also it reprieves them from the anxiety because that's not where anxiety lives in the here and now.
Daniel Patterson:
Right, right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's future tripping like you said.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, future tripping.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
The past and all that stuff. But if we sort of harness the moment, it's like oh it's a breath.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's a breath from all that noise. So, you mentioned COVID and everything going on with that. And then just the effects that it's had on our youth. And I'm curious, you mentioned a little bit about it already, but what has this year been like for you doing what you do?
Daniel Patterson:
It's been my busiest ...
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
What have you seen?
Daniel Patterson:
... Busiest year on record.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
That's it?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah. But I would, keeping it in the educational framing which I think is important for this conversation, is as the chronic separation from traditional school and there are traditional success markers like playing a varsity sport of being president of ASB or being seen and heard at school, all those things that we hang out hat on when assigning value to kids has been stripped away from them.
Daniel Patterson:
So, as time has gone on, what I've noticed more is a total disconnect or almost detachment from the reality of education, disassociating from school. It doesn't feel real, it doesn't seem real, its value is questionable, its delivery is haphazard and not at the fault of the teachers because everyone is just trying to figure this whole thing out.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
So, what I've noticed is just more disenfranchisement with education. But also these really interesting conversations where kids are considering a gap year or community college and these are all huge things that I love for kids because it's disrupted the pipeline of traditional linear success that's usually adult driven.
Daniel Patterson:
So, I've done a lot of school transfers and it's basically huge smoking mirrors and everyone is so distracted with their own drama and personal adversity right now that it's a great way to make change without having to deal with all eyes on me.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
True. What a wonderful point and silver lining to all of this.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah. So just ... This is a great time to deal with all of the demons or struggles or make a change because everyone is already so busy no one will notice.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right. Well that's a good Patterson perspective nugget.
Daniel Patterson:
Thank you.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Because it is. It's a good perspective because I think we are so ... There's this narrative of doom and gloom a lot about this, about our kids and it's been something ...
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And I know it's been very distressing for me to witness too.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Just in my own personal life and taking children and putting them into this sort of unknown space that really is not developmentally appropriate for them in a lot of ways.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Being in front of the screen all day.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And disconnecting them from their friends and all the things that we need as human beings, connection and everything. But I love what you just said that actually it's allowing people to shift and think of different ways to go about their life.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
There are other options, there are other ways for me to move forward.
Daniel Patterson:
Correct.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And still be okay.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah. I think with the college clients that I work with, I work with quite a few college students, the mental health has been more significantly detrimental at that age and stage in terms of just retreating home or the isolation or the juxtaposition because when the kids, at least in the high school setting, they're still living at home, so there's still some semblance of normalcy.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
You see your parents, you have dinner, you can see your friends.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's true, yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
It's kind of similar even though it's different. But college students are doing remote learning but in their dorm room by themself and there's very little connectivity.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
So, I think the isolation and self-medication has and will continue to take its toll on that demographic.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
That's a good point, yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
Which that 19 to 21 age is very, very critical for us to focus on right now.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's a very good point because it's such a transitionary period, right, adolescent to adult really in our society.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
So, in our culture.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah and in one sentence you're like, "Yeah, I want to send them because I want them to have that college experience."
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah, right.
Daniel Patterson:
But at the same time they've launched into a new learning environment, a new social environment, a new living environment void of any sort of structure nor the support of their parents or the touch stones that kind of keep you going when you don't feel like you want to keep going.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah, right. And there isn't ... You would know more about this for sure, and this is why you're here.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Having worked in the school system. But when you're in high school and there's a faculty of people there for you, school counselors, principals, there's a support system built in.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
There is also that, I guess, in a college situation but it's not so evident, right? It's harder to find, it's its own kind of thing that is ... I'm not sure if that makes sense.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, no I hear you.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Like if there was a counseling center that you can go to or what not.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, I've actually discovered that colleges have really, really stepped up their game in terms of-
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Have they?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah. In terms of ... Colleges are businesses at the end of the day.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's the truth.
Daniel Patterson:
And as we say, talking a lot about mental health, that is one of the factors that a lot of parents and students consider now. Like what are the support systems in place? So, they all are free services and drop-in services on college campuses.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Good to know.
Daniel Patterson:
Unfortunately, I think with high school our counselors at high school are really robbed of their true talent through a lot of bureaucracy and paper pushing and scheduled changes and I rate parents because so and so didn't get into what and what class.
Daniel Patterson:
That what I would love to see is a psychologist on every high school campus that's truly a psychologist just to hold space and listen to give therapy.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Just there.
Daniel Patterson:
Not to receive test accommodations and not to transfer from class A to class B but really just I'm having a bad day, I'm having a hard time.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
So, you just named what I'm sensing is the gap that you are, one of the things you're trying to fill, right?
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
There's all that bureaucracy and standardization and everything going on at like you said, has infiltrated the space for that kind of support in the schools.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And how wonderful would it be to just, like you said, have somebody there or multiple there to just hold space for them and that's a really beautiful model.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Because at the beginning of our conversation knowing and being very aware that mental health starts young, right?
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
So, why can't we, why wouldn't we implement these resources so early on?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, and therapy, access to mental health care is cost prohibitive for a lot of families.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
And nearly impossible for certain demographics in our country.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
So, we think about even when I was an assistant principal, I had worked with, I took a meeting with, I asked for a meeting, and took a meeting with a CEO of one of the highest privately held companies in the country.
Daniel Patterson:
And through that meeting, they offered several hundred thousand dollars for me to fund a standalone psychologist on our school campus.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Wow.
Daniel Patterson:
And I was told by the district that, "No, you can't do that."
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Why?
Daniel Patterson:
They don't want the liability. We couldn't do it at every school site, it's not fair, X, Y, and Z excuse.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Wow.
Daniel Patterson:
And I don't understand all the nuances in the law, but at the end of the day I felt like that was completely unethical and unacceptable and also just sort of the, unfortunately, like the boomer mentality of the chief decision makers in most school districts are so disconnected from what's actually happening.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Wow.
Daniel Patterson:
And the same people that love to complain about social media and all these things, "Oh it's the phones." Well whatever it is, it doesn't matter. You still need to treat it.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
This is our world.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, this is our world now and it's not the same world that you lived in.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right, right.
Daniel Patterson:
So, I would love to create that pipeline and people who say it's cost prohibitive, schools are balling on a budget but that's of our own doing. We choose to fund what we love to emphasize. And again, if we want to move to a proactive model, we're going to have to do that.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's certainly a paradigm shift.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And it's long overdue. But maybe.
Daniel Patterson:
Maybe.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Just like you were sort of referencing earlier, this whole disruption of the past year.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And sort of our normal way of doing things might cause somewhat of a shift that we could head that direction.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, and I think that people don't understand the amount of severe mental health cases we're going to see here.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah, yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
And I've already been seeing, but it is going to come crashing down.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yes it is. What do you think we need to do as parents, as professionals, as teachers, as friends and family? What do you think we need to be looking for and doing to help prepare and support one another and our kids as that tidal wave comes?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, that's a good question. Top down, start with you. If you don't show up for you, how can you show up for anyone else?
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
So lead by example. If you need therapy, go to therapy. If you go to therapy talk about therapy. If you're struggling ... like I'm sober and my kids know I'm sober because I want them to know who I am and what could happen to them.
Daniel Patterson:
And I don't hide it. I know people who are like, "Oh my kids don't know." I share my own struggles with them. My oldest has anxiety and that's sort of our common love language because I see it in her and I've been able to let her name it just through that even though it's uncomfortable.
Daniel Patterson:
She can talk about it and say how she's feeling and what she's feeling anxious about. Obviously getting our kids in front of other mentors, third parties. It doesn't have to be a clinician, it could just be anything to keep them going.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And because we keep mentioning the isolation and the disconnection, it's so easy, anxiety, all of these mental health struggles, really isolation it feeds them many times. So just continuing that dialogue, just talking about things, being on board.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, and I think we focus so much on what our kids not who they are.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah, right.
Daniel Patterson:
So, this has been an interesting time for parents to really get to know who their kids are. And I've seen a lot of parent-student relationships crumble when they can no longer talk about football or they can no longer talk about an ACT because they've all been counseled.
Daniel Patterson:
The success markers is another thing that I would love to cancel. I'm not really into the cancel culture as a phenomenon but I am into canceling that.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
I would rather have a happy, healthy, intuitive student with healthy coping skills who has all Cs than somebody who's overworked, over extended, exhausted, abusing stimulants to keep going with a 4.9 GPA, he's going to Yale.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
You've been that student.
Daniel Patterson:
You cannot outperform your mental health.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right, exactly.
Daniel Patterson:
And all you're doing is you're going to parachute them in to an environment where they will crumble.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah, right.
Daniel Patterson:
And I crumbled in college over correction.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yes, and it is avoidable, we can prevent that from happening.
Daniel Patterson:
We can.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And to your point, it starts with us, right? Taking care of ourselves and actually being comfortable in our own self to talk about things other than the football and the ACTs and all those things.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Because that requires a vulnerability on our end as well.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
So, this past year, yeah, there's been a stripping away of all of these societal norms, right?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And especially with kids and all these benchmarks of prom and all this, which on one hand it's sad, you know?
Daniel Patterson:
It is sad.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
That there's a mourning that has had to go on about that.
Daniel Patterson:
For sure.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And well what are we left with and what are we going to do with it?
Daniel Patterson:
Right, yeah, and be a lead griever for your kids because we're all grieving something.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah, right.
Daniel Patterson:
We're all grieving the loss of normalcy or something that we love to do or use to do.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
So, you have to be in touch with what you're grieving and that for hundreds of thousands of people, that's a loved one that's died in this season.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah, totally.
Daniel Patterson:
But beyond that, it's also just the parts of you that are absent that you're grieving. And it's important for parents to tap into that to their own sense of self and what they're missing so that they don't project it onto their children.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
One thing I struggle with is my patience is much lower with my own children.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Me too.
Daniel Patterson:
And I find myself exerting little microaggressions that are really just signs that I'm stressed out or tired or depressed.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right, right.
Daniel Patterson:
And you're also human.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah, just a person.
Daniel Patterson:
Just a person.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Wouldn't you say there's nothing wrong with saying that to our kids?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
These are my struggles, this is what I'm dealing with right now. To a limit.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Obviously, there are boundaries with children.
Daniel Patterson:
There are boundaries with children but I think with older children so much of the, I think one of the myths with parenting is that you have to ... I have to be strong for my child.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
I have to put on the brave face and it makes you can actually backfire and make you seem unapproachable because you're unrelatable because seemingly you have no struggle.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah, that's right.
Daniel Patterson:
And it takes it back to that why would I share my struggle with somebody who doesn't have that experience.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And would you say that that breeds more shame in their own struggle?
Daniel Patterson:
For sure.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah, as opposed to having a parent who is real and authentic about their own struggles.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's more relatable less shame.
Daniel Patterson:
Right, for sure.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah, absolutely. Just to get a little bit more specific about all of this, I know you do a lot of work in working with parents and everything about recognizing signs and symptoms. What are some things that you feel are really important to share in terms of what one should look for in the kids they're either working with or their own kids and get the facts.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, points of concern.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
I'd say sleep schedule although that's gone out the window with COVID but staying up all night, sleeping all day.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
Drug use. Marijuana is off the charts and I like to wager unofficially because I talk to parents all the time, "Well it sounds like your son might have unmanaged ADHD and he's probably smoking a lot of weed." "Oh, they would never smoke weed."
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Never.
Daniel Patterson:
And I'm like, "Okay, well let's just do a little test and see what happens." And eight times out of 10 it comes back positive.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
So, the self-medication is something to look for.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Okay.
Daniel Patterson:
Escaping. There's a certain level of escape like Netflix that's healthy and you want to get away from the world for a minute. But when they're leaving in an alternate reality of other people's lives through just watching Netflix or YouTube all day, or getting lost in video games, those are some signs.
Daniel Patterson:
I think people overplay the school aspect. Right now it's really hard because in a traditional cadence I would say if grades really drop that's a sign.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
But I think that's more to do with just the disconnect from school in general.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
But it is also a good indicator that they're probably depressed.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Super hard to measure right now though.
Daniel Patterson:
Very hard to measure.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
So the only way to know is to know, right? Like if you want to know if you have strep throat you to the doctor and you see if you have strep throat.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right, right.
Daniel Patterson:
So, it's like we can sit and gas all day or you could book an appointment and you could know the next day.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Err on the side of the caution.
Daniel Patterson:
Always.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And speak ... What you're doing right now is modeling just speaking about therapy and mental health as if it's like brushing your teeth or going to the dentist.
Daniel Patterson:
For sure.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And just not making a big deal out of it.
Daniel Patterson:
It's not a big deal.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's not a big deal.
Daniel Patterson:
And if somebody thinks it's a big deal, that's not your bag to carry.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right, exactly.
Daniel Patterson:
It's not your bag to carry.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's not their life.
Daniel Patterson:
No. But people get triggered. On Instagram and TikTok and when I speak I talk a lot about trauma and my substance abuse and my anxiety and my depression. And it bothers people.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
What kind of reactions have you got along those veins?
Daniel Patterson:
Sort of the concept that I'm sad fishing, which is like-
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Sad fishing, I've never heard that before.
Daniel Patterson:
Sad fishing, right? Like cat ...
Speaker 3:
This is the only rare word. I love your choices.
Daniel Patterson:
Yes, sad fishing like attention seeking behavior. Like you're just ... you're trying to ... you're click bait. You're trying to talk about your anxiety to get likes or whatever. No, what I'm trying to do is normalize the conversation and understand that someone like me can still look from 30,000 feet, like I have it all, I have a happy marriage, I just bought a dream home, successful business, I've written two best selling books. I get to speak, make my own schedule.
Daniel Patterson:
But at the end of the day, I still have massive depression and anxiety that doesn't care about any of those things.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Totally, right.
Daniel Patterson:
It could care less how much money I made last year or that I just bought a house that I thought I could never, ever get. Or that I have three children that I love incredibly who are healthy, and each their own crazy, individual personality. Or that my wife has just been with me through thick and thin and always knew I had it in me to get my life together and didn't give up on me when she should have just peaced out. And she didn't.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
That's powerful man.
Daniel Patterson:
So I guess sad fishing.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's powerful.
Daniel Patterson:
I don't sad fish.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
I don't know, you seem like you're sad fishing right now. I'm just kidding. I love that phrase so much. I've never heard it before. I learned something today. No, I'm just kidding. No, I think that that's a beautiful point and I think it is so easy especially when you have the podium that you do, right?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
For people to make so many assumptions and be like, "No, you're doing this because you've lived it and are living it." Right? And nobody is ever fixed, right?
Daniel Patterson:
No.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
This is an ongoing process and modeling that is everything for ourselves, first and foremost to be able to continue the work.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, and I get positive messages too which are always a nice counterbalance to the trolls.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
I hope so.
Daniel Patterson:
You don't feed the trolls.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah, exactly.
Daniel Patterson:
Don't reply. And one of the things that I'm working on locally just because I notice the financial disconnect between therapy or using it as an excuse is raising money for free therapy when I've collaborated with a non-profit.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Have you?
Daniel Patterson:
And we have a lot of money that people can contact us and we'll pay for 10 therapy sessions for their kids, they just pick the provider and the provider sends us the bill and we pay it.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
That's incredible.
Daniel Patterson:
And I'm collaborating with some really cool people, some professional athletes and NBA team owner donated a bunch of really rare memorabilia and HBO and Netflix have given some really cool memorabilia.
Daniel Patterson:
So, we're going to do it kind of in Omaze auction where you just buy a ticket, you don't bid on the items, so only rich people get the item, you just pay a fee to enter and then you can win one of these really cool prizes.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
That is incredible. You are doing such amazing work.
Daniel Patterson:
Thank you.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
So the crowdsourcing, how did ... Is that through Patterson Perspective, the website or?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, it's through ... I've been doing it through my email list and through Instagram and Facebook and just again when ... I post something like, "You should take your kids like you take to the dentist." And people rightfully say, "Well I can't even afford the dentist. How can I afford therapy?"
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
And to your point, you are spot on. So, when I notice a deficiency in that access, then I feel called to answer it to the best of my ability. And it's something I'm hoping to grow to have a surplus of money that kids with financial needs aren't denied care.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And what just such a powerful reminder that just talking about therapy, just go to therapy. That's a privilege to a lot of people.
Daniel Patterson:
100%.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
That is not something that is just easily accessible to every single person.
Daniel Patterson:
No, right, it's expensive.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's so expensive.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And insurance it's a whole nother ball game. I don't even want to talk about insurance.
Daniel Patterson:
I hear you.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
But as a therapist I never took insurance because I didn't want to deal with it.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, well most good therapists don't take insurance, no offense.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yes. No, I would say the same thing and that is really sad in a lot of ways because then it doesn't allow people to get the kind of therapy they might need.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
But that's a whole nother conversation.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
So, I think a theme with the work you're doing is finding another way.
Daniel Patterson:
Right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Okay, so there's another alternative here, let's find a way for them to go.
Daniel Patterson:
There's always a way.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
There's always a way and you are doing such a wonderful job of helping these things become possible for people who may not think that there is a possibility for them.
Daniel Patterson:
Thank you.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
In ways and that hopelessness can be very scary when you're in that depression or the anxiety as a parent, as an adolescent. So the hope that you're bringing with resources like that is a breath of fresh air. So thank you for the work you're doing.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's depression and anxiety but particularly for me depression it's a beast.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Sure is.
Daniel Patterson:
It's a full-time job and the worst I feel ... A good indicator for those of you who don't know me of how I'm feeling is the more I'm out there serving is typically an indicator of the worst I feel at that moment.
Daniel Patterson:
And so I sometimes like, "God, why are you giving me this pain?" I could sit and wallow in it or I can convert all of that energy into good. And so that's sort of a coping skill that I've developed and hopefully not in an unhealthy way but that's just sort of what I choose to do with that feeling.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
And I really respect you for admitting that too.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Is that something that you learn through sobriety?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
The being of service?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah. It's so important because what's the alternative for you, right?
Daniel Patterson:
Right, there's no going back.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Just wallowing, yeah, not safe. Well you've got, like you said you have two books?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
What are your books?
Daniel Patterson:
Well the book that I just wrote that I think is applicable to educators and parents is called RECOVER[edu] and it's a communication guide for addressing mental health in schools.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Love that.
Daniel Patterson:
And it's essentially a road map of how to articulate and navigate the bureaucracy of schools and communicate with them transparently and openly to support your student. And how as an educator you can make change and bend rules and give grace to students. And that came out in April right when this was all starting and I think it's more significant now than it was even going to be in that way.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Wow, isn't that amazing that that was the timing for you in your life?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, it was just a wild coincidence.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Wow.
Daniel Patterson:
Or a divine coincidence, I'm not sure.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
And then the other book I wrote came out in 2018 and it was called The Assertive Parent.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Okay.
Daniel Patterson:
And that was just sort of like a baby 411 book for how to deal with teenagers. Kind of like if this happens, try this, if this happens, try that.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right. And it sounds like they're practical guides of what to say, what not to say, what to do and I feel like that is so needed.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Because it can feel like such a beast especially as a parent. I'm a mental health professional and as a parent I'm like, "What do I do?" So, it's amazing the blind spots that happen when you're in it, right?
Daniel Patterson:
100% yeah. I can go into a crazy situation and tone it all down and then not get any of my kids to bed till 10:30.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Same. What?
Daniel Patterson:
I'm like, "Oh God if people could see me right now."
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
I'd lose all my credibility now.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
I think actually people would be like, "Oh good, he's human too."
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the optics we choose to advertise are not always indicative of our truth.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Well said. And one that note, I want to ask you one more ... Well for more resources, if there's any resources that you would like to point people to. And then anything that just kind of thinking about you as an adolescent and what you went through and as an adult, through your whole journey, what do you wish somebody would have said to you early on, would have done for you. I'm sure this is a question you've had before.
Daniel Patterson:
Well yeah. I think that what I wish somebody would have told me early is that I was not broken, right? Because once you feel broken or think you're broken, then you apply that thought process to every other aspect of your life.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Yeah.
Daniel Patterson:
And everyone is struggling in their own way is what I've learned. And so particularly with mental health, you're not broken and it does get better and there's infinite ways for it to get better but it's a lifelong journey, there's no quick fix.
Daniel Patterson:
And you can learn to use it to make your life whatever you want, that's what I would say.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
It's your superpower.
Daniel Patterson:
It's my superpower.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
That's awesome. Thank you Daniel.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah, thank you.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Any resources you'd like to share with our audience? Anything else? You talked about your books, you talked about your website, anything else that you think that you want to say is out there for people to use should they need help or guidance?
Daniel Patterson:
I think that certainly any non ... There's a lot of non-profits out there that I think are really helpful. Patrick's Purpose Foundation is the foundation that I'm collaborating with to raise funds and they're actually giving out a free therapy.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right.
Daniel Patterson:
Patrick was a sophomore in high school when he died by suicide right before finals. And so I taught his older siblings and was close with that family and still am.
Daniel Patterson:
So, I work closely with them and I think Naomi has phenomenal courses and free resources that are really great to understanding what can seem incomprehensible and giving you resources. So those are two non-profits that I'm familiar with and like.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
That's great. And people can follow you on social media?
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah. Patterson Perspective. I'd love to have you join me.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Right on. That's awesome.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah. You're not just going to get pictures of me at Lido Marina Village. Okay? I'm bringing the heat.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
You're bringing the heat. He's on TikTok now. TikTok guy.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah. You'll see a lot of TikToks from this old guy, but you're welcome.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Bringing the heat.
Daniel Patterson:
Yeah.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Daniel, thank you so much for being here.
Daniel Patterson:
Of course. Thanks for having me.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
I appreciate all you do and who you are.
Daniel Patterson:
Thank you.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Thanks.
Daniel Patterson:
All right.
Kate Gosney Hoffman:
Bye-bye.