Ellen Ahn has served as the Executive Director of Korean Community Services for the past 15 years. Prior to her current position there, she worked as a corporate attorney. Not feeling emboldened by her career path, she discovered her true passion for mental health through a volunteer position at Korean Community Services. Ellen discusses how the current hateful environment and recent events are impacting the mental health of the AAPI community and how that community is working to cope and heal.
Kate Gosney: Hello, and welcome to the Hope Happens Here Podcast. I'm Kate Gosney Hoffman, and I'm so glad you're here. We are speaking with Ellen Ahn executive director at Korean Community Services. Ellen have been the director there since 1997, and actually prior to her current position there, she was a corporate attorney, but she wasn't passionate about law and began volunteering at Korean Community Services, and there she discovered her true passion in mental health. She went back to school, became a social worker, Ellen been working to expand mental health in her community ever since. So happy to have you here, Ellen, thank you for joining us today.
Ellen Ahn: Thank you for inviting me.
Kate Gosney: Oh my gosh, of course. So I know that you have been very busy lately, this phone call comes in the midst of a surge, and I mean, hard to say, but hate towards the Asian community, and a lot going on. If we could just jump right in, just letting us know what your world looks like right now, and how you're doing? What is going on?
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. It has been a tough week for the Asian community, and it's been a tough four weeks for Asian women because what happened in Atlanta, the intersectionality of race with sex, the misogyny, and the racism that was underlying that crime, created a well of emotion in our communities, and of course with me personally.
Kate Gosney: Sure.
Ellen Ahn: I'm doing okay. I have been very busy trying to help with moving the needle so that this doesn't happen again, and also to just react to the short term so that no one further gets hurt, but of course, to address also the longterm systemic changes and the environment that allowed this to happen. And so this last week, it's been filled with rage, sadness, it's grief at what happened. It has also triggered a well of emotion and feelings internally, I think among many. Asian-Americans are taught from very early on, and these of course are generalizations, but to keep our heads down low, work hard don't speak up too much, don't rock the boat, and many of us have endured small traumas, little traumas, a joke here, a joke there, or feeling unheard or people making assumptions about you, because of what you look like, and for Asian women, that's...
We have great defense mechanisms and we survive in that world, but this last week has triggered all those mini traumas, those many incidents into... It's just brought up a well of emotion that was suppressed for a very long time. I would say that's a description of what has happened with me personally. I am in my 50s, I've lived as an Asian woman my entire life here in the United States, minus one, I came here when I was one. And I lived with taunts here and there, Ching Chong common. And being an educated Asian woman, I always felt like I needed to maneuver the world, the white man's world, and work a little harder than everybody else. Also try to be a little more eloquent than other folks so that I could fit in and be heard. And I think as I reflected back on my life, I'm thinking [inaudible 00:04:40] I am Ellen, I am a human being, there's humanity to me that is beyond who I am, and why have I had to try to fit into this world as opposed to the world just hear me for who I am.
And so of course, it's brought up a lot of personal promotes and emotion, but I am a professional and my job is to move the needle, my job is also to voice the concerns of those who may not speak English, that's part of my responsibility and duty. I'm doing okay overall, because I've also been encouraged by the well of support from folks around me that are not Asian, that have really seen, and who has said, "I hear you, and I see you, and I support you." Coming from all corners of my life professionally and personally, and it tells me the world is going to be okay, and the world will move on. The arc of change, though slow is moving in the right direction.
Kate Gosney: What beautiful words.
Ellen Ahn: That was so much.
Kate Gosney: No. It was beautiful. I am encouraged by your words actually, and I'm glad to hear that you're feeling... It sounds like you're feeling hope actually, in the midst of all this. The response has been supportive versus what one might be used to in what you described in the past.
Ellen Ahn: Right.
Kate Gosney: Go ahead.
Ellen Ahn: I'm a mental health professional, this is a mental health broadcast. I have to practice what I preach, and what I encourage, this is no different from the recovery process, those emotions that we feel it triggered a lot of anxiety, and in the midst of that, you find places where you can grab onto hopefulness, and brighter feature, and there are lots of moments like that as well.
Kate Gosney: Absolutely.
Ellen Ahn: I don't have a daughter, but for the young women, Asian women coming up, I truly believe there will be a better world for them, than the world that I've lived in. I hope they don't have to deal with the small slights, the little microtraumas here and there. I truly believe in this new generation coming up.
Kate Gosney: What a powerful concept to focus on, how this is going to have a ripple effect in the generations to come, because as horrifying and heartbreaking what's going on is, and you are certainly in the eye of the storm right now in the work that you do and the community you work with. And you being an Asian female yourself, that you are in the middle of all of it, but you're also seeing the impact it's having in what you were saying before that historically, just keeping your head down, keep your voices hushed, just get by, just survive, is been the norm, but right now voices are speaking up, and they're being heard, and they're being respected, and I think, God, how important is that?
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. Well, I was actually smiling at the irony last night, I do my own self reflection, but in the United States, the great growth of the Asian population happened in the 1970s and 80s, there were a lot of immigrant children who were taught to just work hard and keep quiet, but what's ironic is, there is now a new generation, and that includes me, folks raised in the 70s and 80s, who did exactly that, worked really hard, studied a lot, and there is a large cohort of Asians in many fields, entertainment, of course mental health care, a health care that are very smart, and that are just saying no more. And that's why this moment is...
I really believe in influxion point for the Asian community where those of us who did exactly what we were told to do are now in positions, and in places where we can actually impact change for our mothers and fathers and aunties that are lower income, much more vulnerable, the ones that are getting hit on the streets. We know this is our duty now, and responsibility to create some systemic change so that this doesn't happen anymore. And of course in mental health care, it's to make sure that those folks get the access to care they need.
Kate Gosney: Absolutely. So powerful. And it sounds like there's just sort of a fire lit.
Ellen Ahn: Absolutely. Yes.
Kate Gosney: Yeah.
Ellen Ahn: I've got perfect way to put it. What's wonderful about this moment in time is, the camaraderie among Asian women, it's almost like, "You too? Oh, I experienced that too. Well, let's work together." And finding a sisterhood among Asian women with very different talents, and that all works really well when we work collaboratively.
Kate Gosney: There is. I keep using the word power, but I guess that's just what this is, there's just so much power in that. Is that coming together, that alignment, that finding your family in a way, linking arms and saying no more, we're standing in our power, and we are saying enough using our voices, challenging the system, challenging this narrative, and really... That's amazing.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. The power has always been there. There's nothing more powerful than a person that has remained quiet-
Kate Gosney: Totally.
Ellen Ahn: That has navigated a system, we're actually better at navigating because we've-
Kate Gosney: Good point.
Ellen Ahn: ... Spent our entire lives navigating a system from a disadvantage perspective-
Kate Gosney: Very strategic.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. It's almost like a crouching, just something that's been laying low, that's been unleashed, it's really quite wonderful to be a part of, and to watch, and others. So [inaudible 00:12:00].
Kate Gosney: I love that.
Ellen Ahn: Not discovering that power, but just saying, "It's time to turn this on guys."
Kate Gosney: Yeah. I mean, it's such a good point. It's always been there, it's been building momentum, and you guys will have more strength and wisdom probably than anybody would ever guess based on how you've had to navigate this world. And then, like you said, "No, it's just it's time for us to turn it on." Unleash.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. Most of us Asian women, we know how strong Asian women are-
Kate Gosney: Oh yeah.
Ellen Ahn: ... But the world doesn't see us that way, they see us as submissive, I mean, they also [inaudible 00:12:39] put us on Asian women, all sorts of stereotypes, but us in the Asian community, we know how strong Asian women are.
Kate Gosney: Yes.
Ellen Ahn: And it has been turned on in the last few weeks, and actually throughout the coronavirus crisis.
Kate Gosney: Right. Because this is not-
Ellen Ahn: The pandemic.
Kate Gosney: Yeah. This is a climax of things, but this is not a new... I mean, you guys have been experiencing the fallout of this far since all of this was... It happened a year ago.
Ellen Ahn: Right.
Kate Gosney: Wow. Well, there is a lot of hope in that, and there's a lot of, like you said, just unleashing the tiger and power that's always been there, but now let's go, let's show it, let's band together, enough is enough.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah.
Kate Gosney: What I also really appreciated hearing amongst everything else was the fact that you have been pleasantly surprised by the community around you too, can you say more about that? What has the response been?
Ellen Ahn: It's mostly been with other Asian women.
Kate Gosney: Okay.
Ellen Ahn: It's been really a rallying cry with other Asian women... Let me take that back. It's the camaraderie of Asian women, but it's also the non Asian folks around me. Silence says a lot, but also speaking up says even more. It's been a moment of clarity on just really knowing who is seeing my humanity, and who isn't. And so it's been wonderful for those folks that have reached out to me, the quick sentence here, the little note there. For example yesterday my son had a tutor back in high school, and that tutor... I haven't spoken to her in five or six years. She reached out to me and she just said, "Is there anything I can do?"
That little note tells me that people really care about this, and they care about me, they care about the Asian women much more than I think they do at times. That small note, just sending that note, I wrote her back and I told her, "You have no idea how that small action leaves an indelible impact on people's lives, just continue doing what you're doing, and thank you." A huge thank you. A lot of this has also played out in me professionally, because I think a lot about the trauma that Asian women have gone through over their lives, and what they've had to juggle, and how that plays out in the mental health world.
Also I'm angry at times, and sometimes the lack of mental health resources in the Asian community, in language. This is a podcast about mental health services and issues, the hate incident that happened is completely related to how mental health plays out locally, and then I reflect on my life, and how I got to this point, I sometimes have to deal with anxiety, and then try to apply it professionally so I can create some change.
Kate Gosney: Absolutely. Are you comfortable sharing with us a little bit about how you got to this point in your career?
Ellen Ahn: Yeah.
Kate Gosney: Okay.
Ellen Ahn: Sure. It's in my intro, my first experience with mental health was, I was probably seven or eight years old, back in the 1970s, eight or nine years old, and my parents got a phone call from Korea, and there was a lot of hush hush, not talking about things, I later discovered that my father's sister committed suicide.
Kate Gosney: Oh boy.
Ellen Ahn: What was so striking about it was the next year a similar phone call happened, and I found out I'm the eldest daughter and the eldest daughter we're nosy, and we like to be in the center of what's happening. After eavesdropping, and asking lots of questions, a year later, I figured out that my aunt had committed suicide, and a year later, a very similar incident happened and a second aunt committed suicide.
Kate Gosney: Oh my goodness.
Ellen Ahn: So within a year I had two females role models people I knew, I liked, commit suicide, and there was no discussion. When my parents figured out I knew about it, I was told not to talk about it out in public. That left a real strong impression on me growing up. And then I've had some uncles who were raging alcoholics, their alcoholism disrupted our lives. And like many families battling addiction, we were subject to it.
I remember thinking back in junior high school or high school, "Why you got here? Why you can't talk about it?" I was an immigrant child, Americanized, wondering why everything is hush, hush, why we just have to pretend nothing happened. Why these events actually happen? Why did my uncles become alcoholics? Why did both of my aunts commit suicide? And what was in their life story? Now I can call it trauma, but back then, I didn't really understand.
Kate Gosney: [crosstalk 00:19:27] you are hungry to talk about it, hungry to learn and understand what was going on.
Ellen Ahn: Right.
Kate Gosney: Yeah.
Ellen Ahn: Those are my first... I really did think about it. I was a real contemplative young teenager, but no one answered me, and it was back then. As an Asian daughter of immigrants, my parents immigrated here, I was one years old, the burden Asian children bear, because they move for you. They immigrate, give up everything in their home country. My father is a priest... My father, and my mother are highly educated, but here they are immigrants, struggling. The weight and the burden on immigrant children is immense to succeed. And you are the reason they immigrated, your parents immigrated and gave up everything in their families, their livelihoods, they come here for your success, and so that burden always weighed heavily on me.
Kate Gosney: Sure.
Ellen Ahn: There were some children who break under that burden or feel immense pressure, and I did too, but I channeled back to really working hard. So I went to a good college, I went to law school, the expectation is to succeed and make lots of money, and have the American dream. Even though my mind was wandering about these questions of mental health, my heart was saying, are there other women like my aunts? Are there other men like my uncles? I did what most Asian children in the 80s do, you either become a professor, lawyer, or doctor, you become somebody very successful. Those are the most secure ways to success. Social work is not in that conversation.
Kate Gosney: Right.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. TPA is okay, dentist is okay, but doctor, lawyer and a professor are the best. I suck at chemistry. I didn't do very well in my first college chemistry class-
Kate Gosney: That makes two of us.
Ellen Ahn: ... So that closes the doctor path, and I always enjoyed writing, and thinking, I think my mind tends to analyze things, and so I said I will become a lawyer, I knew nothing about what lawyers do. I was an immigrant child from Korea town, never stepped out of state before I went to college, went to college on the East Coast, an Ivy institution. I never met an attorney, but it just seemed like a good fit, and I had the skillset, so I applied to law school. I wish I had the parents who would have given me access to what a lawyer actually did, but I didn't have that. I was a first-generation college student navigating the world on my own, my parents they were not able to pay my college tuition so I juggled. I do what many immigrant children do as first generation college students, juggle work study, and did what I thought would make, not just my parents happy, but really would justify the reason they immigrated here to US.
Kate Gosney: Right.
Ellen Ahn: So I applied to law school, was clueless about what a lawyer did, but went through law school, and did okay, pass my bar exam, went to a very good law school, and here I was a lawyer, and I did what lawyers do. They applied to law firm, I was offered a job at a corporate law firm, and I hated it from day one. I mean, I was okay at it because it's writing and analyzing, but I had zero inspiration for the work I was doing.
Kate Gosney: No passion.
Ellen Ahn: Every day it was a struggle to get to work. I lasted four months.
Kate Gosney: Oh boy.
Ellen Ahn: And I remember the case, I was writing a pleading, the moment... I was 26 years old, I was writing a pleading on, it was insurance defense case where we were trying not to pay out a settlement for an Asian man who became quadriplegic, he had an accident. He was quadriplegic and was trying to claim, we were defending the reinsurer because it was a large case, I looked at his birth date and it was the same month and year my father was born, and he was an Asian man. I was stunned at my desk trying to write this pleading, looking at the facts of the case. I remember my voice telling myself, what the heck am I doing here? Why am I trying to prevent this man from getting money because he has suffered this horrendous accident, and this could have been my father.
And the next day I submitted my resignation, I didn't know what I was going to do, but I did have a young child at that point. I figured I'll take a year or two off, raise my son, and figure my life out because I had just been running towards this ideal of what an immigrant child should do up until that point. Then I got really bored, just being a stay home mom, and I started volunteering at KCS, and it was so much fun. KCS was a very small organization, four employees. I was very lucky and my husband was able to support us and I... Everything I did there was just so much fun, and impact, the concept of making impact really drives me. And now that I look back on my life, but back then, I couldn't enunciate it. All I knew was, I kept on working. It was a lot of fun. I wasn't feeling the emotions I was feeling right back in this fancy law firm.
This law firm was a 27 year old, it was a top 50 law firm, my office looked on John Wayne Airport, fancy office, had a secretary. KCS, it was this rundown in a shopping center. I think my first desk was a folding table but something about the work just kept on driving me to keep on working. And so I went back to school, and I got a social work degree, and I loved it. I loved social work school. I loved everything, I learned there, it was different from law school. Law school, I just went through the motions and got good grades, it was always towards the next step, which was getting a good job. The social work education experience was, yeah, this is the way the... Oh, wow. It was learning for learning's sake. And so I found my stride in my 30s and I've been social worker ever since for since then.
Kate Gosney: What an incredible story.
Ellen Ahn: And I... Sorry.
Kate Gosney: I said, what incredible story of just finding your truth, and finding your path, and having the courage to just... I mean, it's so cliche sounding, but follow your heart, and shift from building your life based on other people's expectations to actually something that aligns with you and feels good for you and your soul.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. Well, I think Oprah said it or somebody where, if you're good at what you do, the money will follow.
Kate Gosney: Exactly.
Ellen Ahn: So don't worry about following the money or something like that. I mean, I don't make a ton of money, but I'm doing what I love to do. I would like to believe, I don't know, but I would like to believe I'm good at what I do, and I've never looked back. Of course, my corporate attorney friends make a lot more than me, but who cares? [crosstalk 00:28:30].
Kate Gosney: We don't go into mental health to make a ton of money. That's not why we go into mental.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. And let's be honest, these are first world problems.
Kate Gosney: So true.
Ellen Ahn: There's only so much a human being can consume.
Kate Gosney: So true.
Ellen Ahn: I live an aesthetic life, I like living simply, so that just has never been a huge issue for me. I tell people, I have the best job on the planet. And that's what I tell people, younger Asian women who don't let their voice shine through, because I think I wasted, I didn't waste it, I gained some concrete skills, and of course, a legal degree in the field of social work is helpful.
Kate Gosney: Absolutely.
Ellen Ahn: But at the end of the day, I did spend a lot of time wandering, that I shouldn't have. And I tell young women who are thinking about their careers, young Asian women, listen to your heart, and that's really hard to do because the noise in Asian families is so strong, the noise in what the environment asks you to do is overwhelming. But when you find some quiet time, listen to your heart, listen to what you're naturally good at, and if you can just keep on inching towards being about that, your career will find you. I've never looked back, I am on a mission. My mission is to, I think about my aunts, and my uncle, they would have been... One was in Korea, but the... Actually she had her green card when she committed suicide, and she had a plane ticket to the United States.
I think about my family members, they would have been residents here in Orange County, and I think, what can I do so they would still be here? Or they would live functional lives that they wouldn't disrupt their families? What can I do? Given the path I've taken, and how can I make a difference? How can I create mental health systems of care for Asian immigrants that are effective? That really makes sure that the services they receive, this is not easy because the mental health system of care is imperfect for everybody, but it's even more imperfect for those with limited English speaking.
Those in the community that have perhaps suffered the most trauma in their lives, because immigration itself is trauma and their lives back in their home countries usually there's some traumatic events that triggers immigration. And those in the community that has perhaps suffered the most trauma, how can I with the skillset and the life path that God has given me, how can help be a part of building those systems? So then we won't have a suicide again. And Asian young women won't have to go through some of that wandering and anxiety, but can really find their voice a little earlier. So I do reflect a lot on my own family and personal experience in my professional work.
Kate Gosney: It's so important you have lived that life and you know what it's like, you've had it impact your family, and understand what it feels like to be an immigrant child, an immigrant parents, and have that burden, and the hush hush you mentioned, as I'm hearing you talk, I'm thinking about, maybe we could spend a couple minutes just talking about, what culturally in the Asian communities impacts mental health struggles, and maybe prevents one from reaching out for help. What is it? I mean, like you said, keeping things silent and shame attached to things?
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. Well, we can have-
Kate Gosney: That's a long conversation, but it is something really important to understand, culturally how this impacts the mental health in that way.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. Yes, absolutely. And there are scholars much smarter than me who have spoken about a lot of this, but I do see it play out constantly in the work I do.
Kate Gosney: But you're on ground zero Ellen give yourself credit, you are on ground zero, you've lived it, you're doing the work in the middle of it all. So no, you are qualified as ever to tell us about this.
Ellen Ahn: We had a client a couple years ago who was part of one of our mental health outreach programs, she captured it really well, she said, my whole life I'm known as... There are honorific titles, I have always been referred to as, so-and-so's mother, or so-and-so's wife, or so-and-so kid sir name, which is a church title, but no one has ever called me by my name in my entire life. It's really a wonderful experience to be called by my name here. And why I bring that up is, because I'm not an expert in all Asian communities, my expertise is in the Korean community, but in the Korean community, and this can be generalized to most East Asian communities or those communities that have been influenced by Confucianism, is hierarchy and group identity, as opposed to individual identity, is really ingrained in societal moores.
So what that means is, you could see it even play out during the pandemic, mask use has been a non-issue, it's not a discussion about my freedom, it's thinking collectively. And so that collective unit, whether it be your church or your family, or your nation, and that's much stronger in Asian community. So it's great in handling a pandemic, but it can also be incredibly damaging when you're suffering a mental illness.
Kate Gosney: Absolutely.
Ellen Ahn: And what I mean by that is, is because your identity is so relational to others, that when you have a weakness, and mental illness is seen as a weakness, it brings shame, and it's an embarrassment, it's a failure on the group as opposed to just a disease, an individual is suffering. And because of that orientation, people access care much less, they hope it goes away, and they are less willing to talk about it. And the stigma of mental illness is very real because it's not just stigma, it's not just me as the individual that's stigmatized, it's the weight of stigmatizing my family and my group, Oh my God, that group has a mental illness, there's a crazy person there.
Kate Gosney: Right.
Ellen Ahn: That weight is really strong, and so that drives hiding it. That was why my mother said, "Don't talk about it." Because she knew the suicide could be potentially an embarrassment to our family, and my father was a pastor, so an embarrassment to my church, and that plays out over and over and over again in Asian families.
Kate Gosney: What a burden to bear when you are struggling. And then you feel like, well, if I admit that I am not okay, then I am going to bring shame to my family, and then people around my family, and I'm going to cause all this damage, this domino effect of damage, might as well just stay silent.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. I see it constantly in my work, there are Asian women... We talked about a lot of the Asian women issues earlier who are clearly suffering from depression, but if they go to a mental health therapist or a psychiatrist that then they're labeling themselves with mental health issues, so what happens is they go to their primary care provider and ask for ambience because they're having sleep disturbance and hoping that the depression will go away, they're sidestepping depression. Because having sleep issues is not stigmatizing, it's something you go through menopause, you have sleep issues, you talk to your doctor about that. We have a long way to go in the Korean community and I'm sure in other Asian communities, to de-stigmatizing mental health illness, to normalize mental health disorders as just another disease that needs to be openly discussed, addressed, treated, we have miles to go, to [inaudible 00:38:29].
Kate Gosney: Yeah. And I think it starts with really understanding culturally, what impacts mental health within these communities as well, not one size fits all and understanding that, just because somebody in your life from an Asian background is not complaining or not speaking up about this doesn't mean that there are perfectly okay. And something that struck me when we first started talking was when you told us about the tutor, your son's tutor, and just dropping a note to saying, "Hey, I see you." Right?
Ellen Ahn: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kate Gosney: It just makes me feel like we need to really be more sensitive to that, to not make assumptions and understand that just because we don't hear from them that they're not okay, we should still check in, and still do our part in making sure that we're supporting.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. I'll take it one step further, I also think the greater community needs to trust those of us who know our communities intimately well, to not impose mental health treatment practices without tailoring it to the communities that they're serving. For example, we run groups at KCS, the Non Asian English speaking mostly white groups, they're rowdy, people are always wanting to process things, and to talk things.
Kate Gosney: So true.
Ellen Ahn: You can't get a word in edge wise, the facilitator, usually after a few warm-ups it gets going. In the Korean group... [inaudible 00:40:15].
Kate Gosney: Yes.
Ellen Ahn: And they refer to their counselor as teacher, and it takes a very long time to they don't trust. And that's because some of the Confucian influence that we talked about earlier, and the hierarchy of groups, and how people are socialized and identify with each other. You just can't impose a group into an Asian community, that's a very Western model. And assume it will work. A lot of the evidence-based practices are not tested on Asians in language. And so it's really working hand in hand with professionals who understand intimately the communities, and trying to listen to those professionals as well as the clients of course, that's the most important.
And then designing programs that really are tailored so that we can find recovery in those families, and in those individuals. There's an emphasis on peer, and having peers involved, totally important, but you can't label them as peers in an Asian community, given the stigma, because in... I mean, people are proud to be a peer mentors in Non Koreans, but in Koreans, you're basically holding up a sign saying, I lived with mental illness, that just goes against the grain of the stigma.
Kate Gosney: Totally.
Ellen Ahn: That's a strong stigma that is in Asian community. Those things that the systems, the key, need to understand really tease out and work with those of us who really understand our communities to say, well, this will work, but let's tweak it this way and let's turn it this way so that it really makes impact, instead of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
Kate Gosney: Exactly. And having the respect to do so of the culture and not saying, okay, this... And then just in light of what's going on right now. Okay. All this trauma has happened, we're going to come in, the reinforcements are here, we're going to give all the support, no, no, no, wait a minute, let's just take a step back, what is the best way to go around this? And like you said, working with professionals like you, and like the Korean Community Service agency, and being able to come in and say, what is the best way to go about this so that we don't recreate the trauma that got us feeling this way in the first place.
Ellen Ahn: Right. There are families who have really been able to... Korean speaking families who have been able to, or living with mental illness, really hearing their voices and understanding what worked for them and what didn't work for them and facilitating that dialogue.
Kate Gosney: Yeah.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. So it's not just the professional voice, that's what I'm saying. Sometimes professionals drown out community voice, I'm very cognizant at that.
Kate Gosney: Well right now, and especially right now, just, but an always as a community, I think it's important that we learn how to best show up for one another.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah.
Kate Gosney: That's why it's really just so invaluable to be speaking with you right now and learning about how we can best show up for you and the AAPI community in general too. And I think that concept of just having the cognizance in the respect to just say, "Okay, what's the best way to go about this?" And working with those who do know, and learning from each other in that way. And is there anything else that you would like to share in terms of-
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. I really appreciate that Kate, last week I reflected... I in general shy away from being too public, I trained myself to insert myself in places, but be strategic about it, but this week I told myself, this is the moment in time where an Asian female voice, many times were are drowned out by Asian male voices believe it or not, it's Asian male voices, because we have our issues of sexism and misogyny in Asian communities that we could probably do another podcast on.
Kate Gosney: Totally. Let's do it.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. It's this moment where the Asian female voice is given the limelight, and I said, should I speak up? Should I not speak up? What should I do? I had lots of moments of self doubt. But I came to the conclusion that this is this moment, it's a singular moment that I should embrace, and talk about, and really share what goes on inside Ellen as one just sample Asian female, just to keep on elevating this conversation and amplifying, it will take many of us to do this. And so for folks like you to give me this platform and to talk about, and reflect on being an Asian female in this moment of time, I'm very grateful. So thank you.
Kate Gosney: Oh my gosh. Just thank you. Absolutely, it's very powerful. And having you even say what you just did gave me chills because I just recognize how important and powerful it is, and the timing of it. And like you said, is this the time? Yes, this is the time let's just embrace that sacred feminine that you have within you in an Asian culture and understand the power behind that, and use your voice because you have so much to say, and I am so grateful to be able to listen and share with our listeners as well. So thank you. I'm happy to learn from you right now, if there's anything else that you think that we should know, any resources you'd like to share for our listeners at this point in time you're welcome to share that now.
Ellen Ahn: Well, the Be Well Movement here in Orange County, Asian Americans are 21, 22% of this community, and we're growing. We are the fastest growing group here in Orange County, and there is a demographic shift going on, and I hope the mental health community realizes that that part of Be Well means Asians being well too.
Kate Gosney: Yes.
Ellen Ahn: And we're included in the dialogue-
Kate Gosney: Absolutely.
Ellen Ahn: ... And part of the solution, and getting to that better Be Well placed here in Orange County together.
Kate Gosney: Yeah. Well said, and I couldn't agree more. And I appreciate the reminder, it's just so important. How can people access the services at KCS at this point? Is there anything you'd like to direct people to at all?
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. Give us a phone call. You can look us up www.kcshealthcenter.org, or www.koreancommunity.org. I have a very open door. You can email me, phone me, and I'll be glad to help anyone who is interested in some of the issues that we talked about today.
Kate Gosney: Awesome. Gosh, Ellen, thank you so much. It was just an amazing pleasure to talk with you. I'm so grateful. Thank you so much.
Ellen Ahn: Thank you.
Kate Gosney: I know you have so much going on, so hopefully you can take a breath after this and have a good rest of your day and weekend.
Ellen Ahn: Thank you.
Kate Gosney: Thank you, Ellen. So we're not recording now, but I'm just curious-
Ellen Ahn: Okay. You stop recording?
Kate Gosney: ... Is there anything you didn't want in this? How are you doing after that? You're just such a lovely human being to speak with.
Ellen Ahn: I'm doing okay. I've been a social worker a long time, so I try to practice. After I get off with you, I have a garden, I'm at home, I'm going to go outside, I do gardening.
Kate Gosney: Good.
Ellen Ahn: I try to disengage and take care of myself.
Kate Gosney: Good. It's a good example.
Ellen Ahn: You're a social worker, we tend to get so involved in other people's lives that we forget to take care of ourselves, and I always tell myself, "Can't do that, better practice what I peach." And so I am okay. It's been traumatic, and most lesson, there are a lot of good stuff Asian women these days. But in general, there's a lot of empowerment, and strengthened energizing that happens when you find your voice. It's good. It's Saturday. It's almost a weekend.
Kate Gosney: Almost, you can have some time to breathe. I'm hoping because I can only imagine what you've been going through. So rollercoaster of emotion especially just like you were saying, like this tragedy and at the same time, all this momentum building in your community and within yourself, I mean, it's just a lot. Anyway-
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. This is our BLM movement.
Kate Gosney: Totally.
Ellen Ahn: And what's cool is the BLM advocates, the BiPAP community has really come out in force.
Kate Gosney: Yeah.
Ellen Ahn: I hope, and with the current president, and the focus on equity, it's almost been concerted these past few weeks because I... I've been fighting for this for 20 somewhat years.
Kate Gosney: Of course.
Ellen Ahn: Somewhat the stars are aligning, or maybe in my lifetime, I will see some real substantive systemic change.
Kate Gosney: Absolutely.
Ellen Ahn: So who knows? It's exciting too.
Kate Gosney: I think so too. I think now this is your guys' moment, and it's out of the ashes, rays of the Phoenix, I think really, really powerful. I'm really happy to support you in whatever way we can, truly.
Ellen Ahn: No worries. I hope I was helpful for this podcast.
Kate Gosney: Beyond.
Ellen Ahn: I hope it elicited issues you wanted to talk about.
Kate Gosney: Yeah. I think just you being as honest as you were and being yourself is more than we could have asked for. So I'm really grateful. Thank you.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. And glad I can help. I mean, I'm a part of a lot of different Be Well initiatives, substance use disorder, I'm a part of their Be Well Medication Assisted Treatment Expansion, and a lot of it is driven by my uncle and what I think about. I'm glad for this platform where I can explain to my some other folks why I do, because everyone looks at me going, "Asian woman, why are you involved in this SUD treat?" SUD treatment is the widest field out there of the mental health programs.
Kate Gosney: Yeah. It's true.
Ellen Ahn: Opioid treatment is perhaps. Yeah.
Kate Gosney: It is. I worked in substance abuse for a really long time for 10 years, in inpatient substance abuse, and we had... I mean, I was so acutely aware of exactly what you're saying, we did not get that many patients because, from the Asian communities, just because the stigma was just so intense.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. And I walked into meetings with professionals where I'm the only agent [crosstalk 00:52:24] and there was, I can sense it. Like, what does she do? Why is she here? Yeah. And so I hope that, or whoever may listen in they see why I do what I do.
Kate Gosney: And they will. You're an amazing person and the working. I'm very grateful to you. If there's ever anything... The misogyny, any topic I think is very interesting, I would love to do a show on that. Maybe when it's a good time, once things settle down.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah.
Kate Gosney: If there's anything else that you'd want to come on and talk about, I think you know the platform is here, so let's use it.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. Yes. And it's not just me, there are many other Asian women who work in the mental health field that you might want to talk to, but the way sexism plays out in ethnic communities has a lot to do with the psyche, and that's not talked about as much.
Kate Gosney: So interesting. Yeah.
Ellen Ahn: [inaudible 00:53:23].
Kate Gosney: I think a theme here is speaking up, and putting a voice to all this stuff. And so I think that's a really, really good thing to talk about sometime.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. I'd be happy to make connections, talk to myself, whatever you want to just... I'm a social worker a lot happens when we first, and everyone is-
Kate Gosney: Totally. It's all about connection.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah. And pushed to think a little more beyond their cubby hole.
Kate Gosney: Totally.
Ellen Ahn: I gained from learning from others that don't see the world through my lens. I'll be glad to help out, and do whatever you guys think.
Kate Gosney: Wow. Now that you don't have enough on your plate already, but thank you.
Ellen Ahn: Yeah.
Kate Gosney: But we will, we'll stay connected and hopefully we can meet in person in the future as well.
Ellen Ahn: Absolutely. Yeah. And Be Well is important. I mean, Be Well, it really does lead up to the momentum that it started with in the next few years. It's important.
Kate Gosney: Yeah. [inaudible 00:54:26].
Ellen Ahn: Thank you so much. And look forward to meeting you.
Kate Gosney: You too, Ellen. Take care of yourself. Okay?
Ellen Ahn: Okay.
Kate Gosney: Okay.
Ellen Ahn: Bye-bye.
Kate Gosney: Bye.